A Stroll round 1960s Saltcoats

[phands]

Wow!

Just spent a couple of hours reading this entire board! Amazing!!

It brought back so many memories that I didn't even know I'd lost.

I was a young kid in 60s Saltcoats (moved there from Stevenston in 1963-ish, where my dad used to manage the Ardeer Foundry), and loved it. It was a great place to grow up.

We moved to Caledonia Road - the old North Manse house, No 59, and my dad had a central heating business, with premises on Canal Street on the road over to Auchenaharvie and Stevenston. Caley Road was great, and we lived close to many of the business families of the time. My best pal was David Wilkie - son of Lindsey and Grace, who lived across the road, and a few doors along from Couper Wilkie. I used to call him Uncle Cooper. Lyndsey came to my mum's funeral in 2008, and he was still a true gentleman.

Next door was Kerr Baillie, who used to run a car dealership in Ardrossan, I think, who shared a house with Jean Duncan - sister of Ronnie Duncan(?). Jan used to keep horses on the Laighdykes area beside the old railway line, before they built the new houses there.

Along the road were the McAlister family of Kandy Bar fame, and I used to pal around with their son, Steven. Also along the road were the Fullerton family - another good old Saltcoats name. Further along still, were the Cavanis, of the West End Cafe.

All the businessmen used to be good friends, and I grew up with the Camerons of the Kyle Studio, the McSherrys of Starks (my sister later married Ross McSherry, who still runs Starks), the Watsons and a few others, like Baillie the butchers. We all used to go to Glencoe together a couple of times a year, because my Dad put new central heating in the Glencoe Hotel, and they gave us good rates. Later on, I worked for Bobby Lennox and Joe Pendleton in an electronics repair business in Windmill St, which later moved to the old British Legion hall.

Thanks for reawakening all those great memories.

[down south]

Thanks, PH; glad you've enjoyed it. Quite a marathon by now to read the whole of the Stroll; I'll have to go back and do that myself sometime, to add some more links and correct any mistakes.

I remember David Wilkie; fair hair and glasses, a couple of years younger than me. I must have seen him first toddling about in his Dad's shop, when I was still quite small myself. And then later as a young teenager, helping out at his Uncle Couper's delicatessen on a Saturday. There was a younger sister too, but I don't really remember her.

Couper's children were younger I think. I remember I used to see him almost every day at lunchtime, as I walked past his house on my way back to school, taking his labrador dog out for a walk; and then a year or two later with both dog and pram, taking the baby out for an airing as well. Didn't know that quite so many of the local business families lived round there; I was more conscious of all the many teachers who lived a bit further along in the direction of Sorbie Road, from other schools some of them as well as the Academy.

I wasn't ever aware there was a "North Church Manse " in Caledonia Road, but then I suppose I wouldn't be, since it probably ceased being one about the time the church itself moved to the High Road. Would it be the house on the corner of Waverley Place ?...that looks distinct from the other houses around.

Almost time to move on to that original North Church at the end of Hamilton Street now, but not before I've revealed the identity of the young medical man I mentioned in my last post. He obviously deserves to be better remembered, since none of you has felt able to venture on a guess, even though he's been posted about before on this site.

Not a Saltcottar born, but his family settled there and the town can surely claim him as its most distinguished citizen of modern times; in later life an eminent nutritionist and humanitarian, and winner of the Nobel Peace Prize; Lord John Boyd Orr. Whose 1971 obituary in the Ardrossan and Saltcoats Herald I now append, with the usual due acknowledgements.

Susan



DEATH OF LORD BOYD ORR

Obituary from the Ardrossan and Saltcoats Herald, 2nd July 1971

One of the most distinguished Scotsmen of the 20th century, Lord Boyd Orr, who was the first Freeman of Saltcoats, died at his home in Brechin last Friday, in his 91st year.

Born in Kilmaurs, he went with his parents when he was five years old to West Kilbride, where his father had a painter's business, and attended the village school where he became a student teacher. After graduating at Glasgow University he became a teacher at a slum school in the city but the experience depressed him greatly and he came home to Saltcoats where his family now lived.

He taught for three years in Kyleshill School and was an unorthodox teacher for the times, trying to give his pupils as pleasant a time as possible —singing Scots songs instead of grammar and arithmetic — and his views on education remained unorthodox thereafter.

Boyd Orr then returned to university, studied medicine and graduated as a doctor. After a short spell at sea he returned home again and acted as locum to Dr Turner, Saltcoats.

Acceptance of a Carnegie research scholarship led to his becoming director of the Rowett Institute, Aberdeen, and after war service in which he won both DSO and MC, his research into animal nutrition inspired him to campaign for the techniques of nutritional feeding to be applied to the problem of the ill-fed and starving thousands throughout the world. He was instrumental in instituting the supply of school milk to schoolchildren in Britain.

His integrity and dour fighting idealism led to his recognition on a universal scale, although his warnings on the dangers of shortages in the world food situation were not taken seriously enough by most food authorities.

However, he was appointed the first director of the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation (1945-48), when he met most of the world leaders on several occasions.

He was for a short time independent Member of Parliament for the Scottish Universities but resigned to take up the post with the United Nations.

In 1949 he received the Nobel Peace Prize which amounted to about £10,000. He gave it all away to various peace and health organisations. He was president of the National Peace Council and spoke on world government, peace and nutrition throughout the civilised world.

He was made the first Freeman of Saltcoats in 1948 and was the recipient of honours from many nations.
He was knighted in 1935 and was made a Companion of Honour in 1968; he was Chancellor of Glasgow University and a Fellow of the Royal Society.

Lord Boyd Orr is survived by his wife, who was Miss Elizabeth Callum of West Kilbride, and whom he married in 1914, and by two married daughters. His only son, Billy, was killed in the Second World War.His sister, Miss Annie Orr, still resides in Saltcoats.

In the past week tributes to Lord Boyd Orr have been paid by newspapers and by prominent people all over the world.

A memorial service will be held in St Cuthbert South Beach Church, Saltcoats, on Sunday afternoon.

Postscript : from West Kilbride news.

Miss Nellie Brown, Orchard Street, who is in her 91st year, has happy memories of her schooldays in West Kilbride and remembers Lord Boyd Orr as a pupil. One of her classmates was Bessie Callum, now Lady Orr. Lord Boyd Orr who died last Friday was probably the school's most distinguished former pupil and in his autobiography he wrote that to him West Kilbride was the prettiest village in Scotland.

[phands]

Hi Susan,

North Manse was actually No 59 Caledonia Road. It is 2 doors down from the house you mention on the corner of Waverly Place - that was occupied by the Fraser family back then. No 59 had 2 names - one on each gatepost - "North Manse" and "Dunottar". Still did when I last looked a year ago.

David Wilkie's little sister is called Lorna. I haven't seen David for decades - he went to Leeds University to study Pharmacy, and as far as I know, stayed there.

Along the road, 4 doors down, was the Hutton family. Their dad, Gordon, was the manager of one of the Saltcoats banks. Next door was a Dr Owen, who was apparently a "dynamite doctor", who worked at the Nobel explosives plant.

The street was full of kids all around the same age group, and we had an amazingly free and fun childhood back then. We used to play most "over the back wall". This literally was over the back wall of some of the houses on to the old railway line and coal yard - very dangerous, as the line was still occasionally in use back then.

[Penny Tray]

Phands,

I've been racking my brains for months to recall the name of the manager of the Clydesdale Bank in Hamilton Street in the 60s. I think your mention of Mr. Hutton may just have resolved the issue.

[mike mccann]

Hi Penny,
Mr Williamson was manager of the Clydesdale in the fifties but I'm not sure if he was still there post 1960.
I remember Gordon Hutton as being manager of the Savings Bank in Bradshaw St in the sixties and he eventually transferred to Argyllshire ...sadly he died last October .
Mike

[down south]

Back now to the original North Church , which stood by the War Memorial on the spot now occupied by the supermarket. Here it is in a Herald photograph from the late sixties, not long before it was demolished:

Of course there wasn't always a roundabout there; that was created round about the mid-sixties. Probably, at a guess, at about the same time as that other piece of modern traffic management, the one-way system.

Before that the War Memorial site was at the end of a promontory of land where Manse Street and Hamilton Street met in a point. Here's a peaceful-looking scene of how it used to be, not long after the War Memorial was built I should guess:

http://www.ayrshireroots.co.uk/Towns/Sa ... morial.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By the sixties the North Church itself had moved to a new site at the Border crossroad, where it still flourishes today; and the old church was being used as St Cuthbert's church hall. It was a good big space that housed quite a few local events: I remember Saltcoats Flower Show being held there .But when St Cuthbert's opened their new church hall on a site beside their church, the old building was declared surplus to requirements and pulled down; another attractive local landmark gone. ( Strangely, that was actually in January 1970, I've discovered, several months before St Cuthbert's new hall was officially opened.)

Susan

[phands]

Susan,

I tried to click on the ayrshireroots link, and get denied access.....

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /Towns/Saltcoats/Old Views/Saltcoats_War_Memorial.jpg on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Paul

[down south]

Sorry about that. Paul; you're not the first to have problems with links I've posted to Ayrshire Roots recently.

I've even had the problem myself; a couple of times , when I've found an Ayrshire roots photo on Google Images and tried to access the full-sized version, it's told me " access forbidden on this server ". But when I've gone to the Ayrshire Roots site directly and looked for it, I've found it without problems.

So the best thing I can suggest is for you and anyone else who's having trouble with the link is to do that; go direct to http://www.ayrshireroots.com; under Towns you'll find Saltcoats; under Saltcoats you'll find Old Views; and in there hopefully you'll be able to see the picture.

But it looks like I'd better reconsider whether I use their pictures in the future if they're going to be such a nuisance.

PS Better still, here's an alternative version of that same photo I've now found on North Ayrshire Yesterdays:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nayesterdays/6302124330/

PPS Better still, I've now at a later date managed to refresh all of my Ayrshire Roots picture links so that they do hopefully now work.

Susan

[morag]

You know, what we consider a difficulty now just goes to show how much we've come to accept easy access to anything, via computer..we've become spoiled brats! lol! I know..I'm one! page takes too long to load..grrr..thing freezes up? sweary words!

[down south]

Some more detail on the history of the North Church, from an early seventies article in the Ardrossan abd Saltcoats Herald:

" The North Church was erected by subscription in 1836 as a meeting-place for Gaelic-speaking wor­shippers in the district, and at the Disruption of the Church in 1843, the minister and the larger part of the congregation seceded from the Church of Scotland. Later, services were conducted in Gaelic and English alternately, until in 1873 the North Church was constituted as a Mission Charge under the Parish Church Kirk Session.

In 1906 the North Church became a parish church of the Church of Scotland, the best‑remembered minister being the Rev John R. Spottis­wood, whose only charge it was, and who ministered to the congregation for 40 years, from 1899 until 1939.

After the second world war the Church of Scot­land recognised a need for a new church to serve the expanding population in the housing areas above Saltcoats High Road, and the North Church was "translated" to a new meeting-place at the Border crossroads where the congregation met at first in a wartime Nissen hut, called St Medan's Hall, then in a hall-church, until the present new North Church was built.

Meanwhile the old North Church building was redecorated and modified as a hall for the congregation of St Cuthbert's Church whose previous hall had been their old church in Kirkgate, which is still extant and now houses the North Ayrshire Museum.

On the union of St Cuthbert's and South Beach churches, a new hall was built beside the church in Caledonia Road, and the old North Church building was demolished . "

I'd never really thought before that there would have been a local Gaelic-speaking population at all in the Three Towns , any more recently than very early times ; I'd imagined everyone speaking Burns' Scots.

But to my surprise this clearly shows that at that time in the nineteenth century there must have been quite a considerable one. In fact enough to support not just one but two churches, because I've discovered mentions that South Beach Church at the other end of Ardrossan Road also started out as a Gaelic church .

I suppose as well as all the Irish Catholic immigrants, who of course would hardly have been going to those churches, I'm underestimating perhaps the number who may have come into the area from the Highlands and islands in times when local industries like the docks were beginning to get going.

Would be interesting anyway to find more detail on how widespread Gaelic-speaking was in the local area back then.Anyone have any further insights on this ; familty historians who know of Gaelic-speaking ancestors for example ?

Susan

[morag]

I don't think Gaelic was much done in the southern part of Scotland. My grampa used several Irish Gaelic, Scottishised words and my gran came up with a few, though not Gaelic, perhaps, but lallans?

[down south]

Looking into this on that mine of information Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've found the general statistics that in 1800, 18% of the Scottish population spoke Gaelic only; around 300,00 people. By 1891, the absolute number of Gaelic speakers was not much less at around 250,000, but with the rise of population the proportion had declined to around 6% ; and around 80% of those were bilingual in English and Gaelic.

As to the local area, it seems that as early as 1400 Gaelic had been largely replaced by Scots in North Ayrshire ; but Galloway and the neighbouring parts of South Ayrshire were a different matter. The village of Barr near Girvan was reported to have been the last place in ( mainland ) Lowland Scotland where Gaelic was spoken .

Even more significantly, the island of Arran was another stronghold of Gaelic, and still spoken there into the twentieth century.

So I would guess it was incomers from those two areas, and especially Arran perhaps, who would have been likely to make up the largest proportion of our local Gaelic speakers in the nineteenth century when those churches were founded.

PS There's now some confirmation of the Arran origins of the majority of the parishoners of the local Gaelic churches here;

http://www.threetowners.net/forum/viewt ... 88#p105188"

Susan