ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

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tapnagol
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by tapnagol »

Re my last post ref the ww 2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour. I hoped that it would generate comment from someone who may have been around at the time. I can only add that it was around the time that Laighdykes school was being built. ...... In anticipation,.
Ashdale.Kid
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

My Dad and my Grandfather (Papa) heard shouting in the early hours (approx. 1am). It was a warm and still night. They got up out of bed, and went out to see what was happening. My Granny wasn’t at home as she was working nightshift at Ardeer. As they were crossing the road bridge at Saltcoats railway station, a voice in the darkness asked for directions to the police station. My Dad and Papa gave him directions to Green Street. The crew member was quite calm and did not appear to be injured in any way. It turned out to be one of the crew who had bailed out. My Dad remembers him saying that it was a Whitley bomber. They walked to the harbour and it was pitch black. There were a lot of people there, and they were aware that a boat had come in with a survivor from the sea. This may have been the person that they had heard shouting. Two crew members were found on the shore a few days later, but sadly they hadn’t survived. My Dad reminded me of the story today, after I had read this thread to him. Always reminiscing. If you want to know more about the train crash in Saltcoats behind the miners’ home, the fighter plane that crashed up in the countryside behind his friend’s farm during the war, and many other stories of old Saltcoats, he knows lots of them :)
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Meg
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Meg »

A warm welcome to the 3Ts, and thanks for this story, it a corker. Yes, please get as many stories as you can from him, it only when you lose your parents, you realise that you’re the fount of the knowledge now - so gather as much as possible. Looking forward to his recollections.

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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Bruce »

I remember hearing stories of a plane crash on the moors between Dalry and Largs, and remember going expeditions when I was young up the hills, and one of the hills was referred to as "the plane crash".

In the stories, it was a German plane that had been returning after the Clydebank bombings. But according to some googling today, the plane crashed on Blaeloch hill was a Fairey Firefly, on anti-submarine reconnaissance in 1944. Also a Vickers Viking north of Largs.

More info http://www.mylargs.com/plane/plane.shtml
and from an Ardrossan Academy school magazine
http://www.mylargs.com/plane/firefly.pdf
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Bruce »

I also remember my grandmother telling me of the day that a (German) pilot bailed out above some houses on the outside of Dalry, near the Blair miners' rows. A group of people ran from the town to give him a reception committee.

The men captured him, and took him to the police station. Meanwhile, the women fought over the silk from the parachute.
Ashdale.Kid
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

I asked my Dad to give a verbal account of his recollections of the WW2 Whitley Bomber crash off Saltcoats Harbour. Here is a link to it:



I have got him on standby for more stories of old Saltcoats. Apart from his National Service time in the army, he has spent all of his 93 years living in Saltcoats, and he has some interesting memories to share.
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

I found the RNLI record referring to the Whitley bomber crash just off Saltcoats Harbour. It happened at 2:30am on 2nd May 1943. I believe that there may be an error in the RNLI record, as my Dad spoke to one of the survivors on the road bridge over Saltcoats railway station, after he had bailed out over dry land. The RNLI record agrees with the posts earlier showing that Mr Sheddon also picked up a survivor in his boat, but it states that there was only one survivor.

The RNLI record is here: Services by the Life-boats of the Institution, by Shore-boats and by Auxiliary Rescue boats during 1943 https://rnliarchive.blob.core.windows.n ... 943wys.pdf

In case it is not available in the future, I have copied the relevant entry from Page 60:

SALTCOATS, AYRSHIRE. About 2.30 in the morning of the 2nd of May, 1943, a Whitley bombing aeroplane, with engines not working properly, passed over Saltcoats. A few minutes later she crashed into the sea and exploded. The sea was calm and the surface took fire over a large area. A voice could be heard calling for help, and the police knocked up a man, Mr. Shedden. He put out in a small motor boat and at some risk rescued one airman, the only survivor. The Ardrossan pilot launch also put out and picked up a body. Two naval vessels also went to the scene. - Rewards, £1.
Ashdale.Kid
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

I have more information, provided by Tony Hibberd, one of the moderators of the Facebook group ‘RAF Bomber Command Crews and Aircraft Pictures’.

Tony made reference to Royal Air Force Bomber Command Losses. Volume 7: Operational Training Units 1940-1947 by WR Chorley (a series of books on Bomber Command losses).

It identifies Whitley Bomber Z3962 as being attached to 24 Operational Training Unit (OTU). It had departed from Honeybourne in Worcestershire for a Night X-C NAVEX (Cross-Country Navigational Exercise). Following engine failure, it ditched 1 mile south of Ardrossan Harbour at 02:17 on Sunday 2nd May 1943, and three crew were killed.

Tony went on to add that there is no record of survivors’ names, or indeed how many, but usually the Whitley had up to five crew on a line Squadron, possibly more on an Operational Training Unit flight.

This ties in with the RNLI record which identifies one survivor being picked up by Mr Shedden in his fishing boat, the Ardrossan pilot launch recovering one body from the sea, and also my Dad’s own recollection of talking to a survivor on the road bridge at Saltcoats railway station and him also remembering that two airmen had been found on the coast a few days later.
Ashdale.Kid
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

Corrections to my previous posts: the Whitley Bomber should have been identified as Z9362 and the correct spelling for the local fisherman is Mr Shedden.

The three aircrew who lost their lives in the Whitley Bomber Z9362 (24 Operational Training Unit) crash just off Saltcoats harbour on 2nd May 1943 were: Flying Officer John Clifford North Lewis (Service Number 109536, Pilot, aged 29), Sergeant Ernest Jack Beer (Service Number 1600187, Wireless Operator, aged 29), Sergeant Donald Ernest Watts (Service No 1250352, Air Gunner, aged 21). To date I have not been able to identify the two airmen who survived.

For more information on the life of Flying Officer North-Lewis, see https://www.worc.ox.ac.uk/visiting/libr ... who-died-2 and the post on 7th May 2020 in the Brampton Branch, Royal British Legion Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/BramptonBranch ... tishLegion

For information on a previous incident involving Whitley Bomber Z9362 which occurred on 28th January 1942 see the Aircraft Accidents In Yorkshire website at https://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/ai ... z9362.html

Acknowledgements: Guidance on the research provided by Tony Hibberd, of the Facebook group ‘RAF Bomber Command Crews and Aircraft Pictures’. Use of photographs of gravestones and memorial, permission received with thanks (photographers identified in brackets): Flying Officer Lewis, buried in Brampton (St Martin) Old Churchyard, Cumbria, (Dimitrios Corcodilos), Sergeant Watts, commemorated on Runnymede Memorial, Surrey, Panel 169 (Amanda West), Sergeant Beer, buried in Brookwood Military Cemetry (Wertypop). Information from International Bomber Command Centre Losses Database https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/
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Photo by Wertypop
Photo by Wertypop
Photo by Amanda West
Photo by Amanda West
Photo by Dimitrios Corcodilos
Photo by Dimitrios Corcodilos
Ashdale.Kid
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

Further information has been identified following extensive research, looking at documents and through contact with a wide range of people. The full story is one of bravery and tragedy, when a stricken aircraft passed over Saltcoats and crashed into the sea two miles off the harbour, with the loss of three lives (Two page report attached).

Records became available which identified all five members of the aircrew. More information also became available about the Saltcoats fisherman David Shedden, who at considerable risk to himself, rescued Sergeant Leslie Noel Atkinson from the sea. Leslie then went on to fly operations on Halifax Bombers as Flight Sergeant Leslie Noel Atkinson of the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF). David had seen combat in World War 1 with the 5/6th Battalion, Scottish Rifles (more commonly known as the Cameronians).

The airman who walked over the road bridge at Saltcoats railway station and reported into the police station at Green Street was Sergeant Edward Harold George Dyer who also went on to fly operations in Halifax Bombers.

Sergeant Donald Ernest Watts was never recovered, and it is possible that his remains may still be in the wreckage of the aircraft.

Aircraft:
Armstrong Whitworth Whitley Mark V Serial No Z9362 of Number 24 Operational Training Unit, then based at RAF Honeybourne, Worcestershire.

Crew:
Flying Officer John Clifford North-Lewis, RAFVR, 109536, Pilot, Killed, body recovered (aged 29).
Sergeant Ernest Jack Beer, RAFVR, 1600187, Navigator, Killed, body recovered (aged 29).
Sergeant Donald Ernest Watts, RAFVR, 1250352, Wireless Operator/Air Gunner, Killed, body not recovered (aged 21).
Sergeant Leslie Noel Atkinson, RAFVR, 34429, 1397005, NZ4310154, Air Bomber, Baled out, rescued from sea.
Sergeant Edward Harold George Dyer, RAFVR,1606353, Air Gunner, Baled out, landed on land.

Tragically, Sergeant Dyer (RAFVR) was killed in action on 22 November 1943 (aged 19) and Flight Sergeant Atkinson (RNZAF) was killed in action on 24th February 1944 (aged 29).

Work is underway to trace and contact relatives of the airmen to let them know about the Saltcoats accident.

It is hoped that there will be support for a monument/memorial to be put up locally in recognition of all those involved.

Abbreviations: RAFVR = Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, RNZAF = Royal New Zealand Air Force
Attachments
Two Page Whitley Bomber Saltcoats Version 3 Dated 27 October 2022.pdf
Two page summary - Whitley Bomber crash off Saltcoats harbour 2 May 1943
(216.28 KiB) Downloaded 123 times
Fimac
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Fimac »

I know some Catalinas were based out of Oban, one crashed just off Lismore in WW2, my grandfather used to deal with these things, as he was costguard there (and the dads army home guard!).
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Re: ww2 bomber in Saltcoats harbour

Post by Ashdale.Kid »

Two years of researching the crash of the WW2 bomber into the sea off Saltcoats harbour in 1943 has now been completed and all available details, including photographs of local fisherman David Shedden (rescuer) and three of the crew members, have been passed over to North Ayrshire Heritage and are available at the following link: https://naheritage.co.uk/stories/whitle ... coats-1943
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