Dirrans Sawmills - Neil Small - James Small - Mary Ralston

For those researching family in the three towns area.
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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:52 pm

Hi Sweet Caroline,

Re. Mary Small marriage to James Whiteford - I'm not certain which Mary Small you're referring to (there are so many of them!)

Yes - Janet Small and Robert Stewart married on the 17th April, 1857 (Thank you, I wasn't cetain if they'd married in Kilwinning or not.) Descendents of Janet Small and Robert Stewart are now living in Canada.

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:12 pm

sweet caroline wrote:Neil Small Birth
1760 in Kilwinning, Ayrshire, Scotland Death
1786
2 Mar Age: 26 Marriage to Jean Kerr Kilwinning, Ayrshire

Janet Small 1787 – 1873 Agnes Small 1788 – Agnes Small 1788 – Alexander Small 1790 – Archibald Montgomerie Small 1792 – James Small 1796 – Anne Small 1800 – Robert Small 1802 – Helen Small 1804 – 1874 Mathew Small 1806 – Elizabeth Small 1808 –

Taken from a tree in "Ancestry"
Hah - its clear why there were so many 'Small' family members in Kilwinning. When I last visited the local history centre in Ardrossan I was unable to find any records before the 1780s. I have no record of who Neil Small's (b.1760) parents were, and I have no records of who Neil's siblings were either - but I imagine all of the Small's in Kilwinning most ikelyoriginated from the same family.

Neil Smal and Jean Kerr's children:

Janet Small born 8th March, 1787 married John Cavine 26th October, 1816 in Kilwinning. They had one daughter, that I know of, Janet Cavine born 22nd October, 1818.

Agnes Small bon 23rd September, 1788, married (I think) Hugh Cochran 5th June, 1813

Alexander Small born 17th May, 1790. I have currently no further record for Alexander.

Archibold Montgomerie Small born 20th September, 1792. I have no further records for Archibold.

Margaret Small born 27th April, 1794. I have no further records for Margaret.

James Small born 5th May, 1796, married Margaret Miller on 3rd January, 1817. Later he remarried to Elizabeth Jack on 8th October, 1837.

Mary Small born 21st March, 1798. Currently no further records.

Ann Small born 9th July, 1800, married David Reid on 3rd June, 1825. Currently I have no further records.

Robert Small born 23rd July, 1802. Currently I have no further records.

Helen Small born 25th February, 1804, married William Hamilton Young on 29th October, 1825. They had one son that I know of, Neil Young (date of brth unknown).

Mathew Small born 29th October, 1825. Currently I have no further records for Mathew.

Elizabeth Small born 1st November, 1808, married Thomas Aird on 19th February, 1831 in Kilwinning.

So here, already, are the makings of a large 'Small' family (no pun intended!)


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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:30 pm

sweet caroline wrote:Just discovered i Have Ann Small 1800 Kilwinning ,Father Neil Small,Mother Jean Kerr ,on my tree.
Ann married David Reid 27.3.1802 Stevenston,Father William Reid,Mother Jane Scott.Jane was a sister of my GGGGGrandfather Adam Scott.David Reid died 12.2.1873 Toll Bar,Lochwinnoch.
1851 Census at Cartside,Paisley Abbey,Johnstone
1861 Census at Cartside Mill,Paisley Abbey,Johnstone
1871 Census at Lochwinnoch
Death-Apoplesey 2 days.William McGregor ,son in law,present
Ann Reid nee Small -died 23.12.1866 Cartside,Johnstone
-Influenza-Father Neil Small,mother Jean Kerr
Neil Reid c 1827 Paisley
Jean Reid c 1828 Paisley
Ann Reid c 1833 Stevenston-William McGregor c 1833 Thorn,Johnstone-Toll Keeper,marr.31.10.1862 Paisley
William Reid c 1842 Johnstone.

So that explains how Mary Scott met John Whiteford ,James married Margaret Small.
They did like to be introduced in those days LOL
Ah this is all too much! Ha-hah - Great stuff - small world!

Ok - let me put this together....

Ann Small married David Reid (yes of course!) Ah, I have a different date of marriage (somehow) I have 3rd June, 1825 in Kilwinning. Not to worry, check this later... No, wait up - Ann is born on 9th July, 1800 - married on 3rd June, 1825 , and they have their first child Neil in or around 1827, then Jean c.1828, then Ann c1833 and finally William in 1842.

So then their daughter Ann marries William McGregor, Tollkeeper, on 31.10.1862 in Paisley (daughter Ann, bon c1833 woud now be around 30 years of age - makes sense.)

And then - this is how Mary Scott met John Whiteford?.... James Married Margaret Small... Hang on - losing track here - need to go back and read your posts! **Laughing to myself**

What a small world (or maybe a small Kilwinning!)

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by sweet caroline » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:32 pm

Hi Bobfish,
Have you got "Hughwallis" site where you are.It's an easier way of finding the Parish Records of a place.It is an off shoot of "Familysearch" so the numbers are all there if you want to order the filch and get a copy of the originals.
I'm now being driven mad with this Whiteford that married Mary Scott.LOL
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:50 pm

You're going mad? I'm lost now with the Whiteford's.... Where do the Whiteford's fit in - James Whiteford - which Margaret Small did he marry?

I have three Margaret Small's in my tree...

Margaret Small born 27th April 1794 (parents are Neil Small and Jean Kerr).
Margaret Small born 8th Feb 1822 (Daughter of James Small and Margaret Miller - though I have this Margaret marrying a Thomas Conn on the 31st May, 1845 in Kilwinning, and later they have a daugher called - wait for it - Margaret!)
Margaret Small born c1848 (Daughter of Robet Small and Ann Caldwell (Robert being the son of James Small and Margaret Miller)).

I should have maybe called my daughter Margaret - there clearly aren't enough Margaret's in the family!

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:53 pm

sweet caroline wrote:Hi Bobfish,
Have you got "Hughwallis" site where you are.It's an easier way of finding the Parish Records of a place.It is an off shoot of "Familysearch" so the numbers are all there if you want to order the filch and get a copy of the originals.
I'm now being driven mad with this Whiteford that married Mary Scott.LOL
Hah - just found the Hughwallis site - oh dear, now you've started something! Thank you for sharing - I never knew this was available.

bobfish (was tempted to sign myself as 'Margaret'!)
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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:41 am

sweet caroline wrote:Hi Bobfish,
Yes that's where the Sawmill sat,where Woodmill housing is now.The bus stop was at the entrance to the footpath ,and the Sawmill fencing ran along the pathway.I believe the entrance was just about where the start of the gardens are at the bus stop.It covered a large expanse of land. Is Larchfield House the first private house at the other end of the Dirrans,something tells me i was told that was where the Smalls lived.?

Ah, I wish I could see a photo - but you've painted a good picture for me though Sweet Caroline, thank you.

Yes Larchfield House - you'll find it on Google maps street view... Just copy and paste this link into your web browser adrress bar: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 7,,0,-4.62

Not the first private house but within the same row.
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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:58 am

sweet caroline wrote:Hi Bobfish,
It seems like Your Aunt played a big part in your grandmother's life.Could she have lived with her after her mothers death ,as your father would have to go on working. That was not unusual. Not looked on "ancestry" for your James Small
I'm not certain who looked after my Grandmother Jane as she grew up without a mother. If you take another look at that census return which shows her dad James' occupation as 'Traveller', you'll see that James' sister Elizabeth is living with James and his daughter Jane in Glasow.

Now, as far as I know Elizabeth never married - remained a spinster. It's possible she could be on that census by purely by chance - she might only have been 'staying over' in Glasgow with her brother and her neice at the time the census was taken, but I have an idea she more likely lived with them.

Jane's first children were twins and, as I've mentioned already, she named one of them Mary Ralston. What I have't mentioned already is that she named her other daughter Elizabeth! Ah - all the names fall into place now. :P

Whilst growing up I was often tolda story about my Great Grandmother Small entering into a marriage with a man that her parents didn't favour. She was given an ultimatum - if she married him she would be disinherited. The story went that she chose love over money and married her man. That was the story.

In recent years I've learned that her mother died when sh was only two years of age so, of course, if this story was true - her mother certainly didn't disinherit her. If anyone did then it was most likely her father James Small.

I don't know if James had any sizable inheritance to provide her with - though I am aware that James' family had a fair amount of money back then - mainly from the sawmill business.

It's a curious web of possibilities and a seemingly endless nuber of avenues to explore. But then, that's what makes family history so intriguing though right?! :lol:

bobfish
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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:23 am

I've also been led to believe that this house was oce know (perhaps still is) known as Pathfoot cottage, and that this also once belonged to the Small famly at some time or other. I think the early census returns show the family to be living at Pahfoot Cottage (perhaps James Small and Margaret Miller). I'll take another look at the census.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... .42,,0,5.3

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by bobfish » Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:36 am

Where does the place name 'Dirrans' in Kilwinning originate from?

If Neil Small's sawmill was known as Dirran's sawmill, as this because it was based in the Dirran's area or had it once belonged to a family named Dirran's? :roll:

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by sweet caroline » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:49 pm

Hi Bobfish,
Think the sawmill was just called after the area.The Dirrans are an old part of Kilwinning.See Ayrshire Roots site.
1861 Census showing Neil and Mary at Pathfoot cottage.1851 Census their at Brigend
Name: Neil Small
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilwinning, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 599
Registration district: Kilwinning
Civil parish: Kilwinning
Town: Kilwinning
County: Ayrshire
Address: Pathfoot Cottage
Occupation: Wood Merchant & Saw Miller Employing Two Men
ED: 15
Household schedule number: 137
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1861_87
Household Members: Name Age
Neil Small 36
Mary Small 35
John Small 12
James Small 10
Neil Small 8
Elizabeth Small 6
Gavin Small 4
Margaret Small 2
Mary Small 3 Mo
Mary McMillan 16
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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Re: Dirrans Sawmills; Neil Small; James Small; Mary Ralston

Post by sweet caroline » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:57 pm

The Whitefords!
1861 Margaret Whiteford nee Small
Name: Margaret Whiteford
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : James
Gender: Female
Where born: Kilwinning, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 599
Registration district: Kilwinning
Civil parish: Kilwinning
Town: Kilwinning
County: Ayrshire
Address: Main St
ED: 13
Household schedule number: 63
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1861_87
Household Members: Name Age
James Whiteford 22
Margaret Whiteford 22
Elizabeth Whiteford 2
David Whiteford 7 Mo

Son David would be called after his father.
1841 and 1851 Census Margaret Small is with the Wylies at Corsehill-Niece.1841 with Robert Wylie,1851 with Joseph Wylie.Father Robert Small,Mother Mary Hunter nee Wylie.
David Whiteford-Father David Whiteford,coalminer,deceased,Mother Elizabeth Mains ,was Whiteford nee Cruickshanks.I know she's from Dalry ,but only says David Whiteford in Kilwinning.This is bad news for my John Whiteford.LOL
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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