McIntyre or Frew

[tidybooks]

Hi All,

Hoping that someone on this board can help. This is my first post and have checked the other posts and has not been raised before on here. I did try on RootsChat without much success.

Robert McIntyre or Frew was my Great Great Grandfather. My Great Grandmother Agnes Divens McIntyre was on her birth and marriage certificate, but on her death certificate it was Agnes Divens Frew Paterson, having married a Robert Paterson at 5 Kirkgate St Saltcoats on 31 Dec 1888.

On IGI, There is a Robert McIntyre Frew married to a Mary McNair on 9th Sep 1864 in Stevenston, Ayrshire. (Submitted Record). I have a marriage certificate of Robert McIntyre to Mary Weir on 9th Sep 1864 in Stevenston, Ayrshire. (This is also an extracted record on IGI). However both Robert and Mary could not write and were illegitimate, but their mothers were alive but had since married and changed names but not to "Frew".

Robert McIntyre was either born in 1837 or 1841 to a Margaret McIntyre b 1821 Stevenston who subsequently married Peter McCartney in 1851. If a Mr Frew either married Margaret after birth of Robert, or was the actual father of Robert but never married her, could be 2 explanations.

I have found a Poor Relief record for Stevenston, it says “Robert McIntyre or Frew Windmill Street Age 44 years (1881) By birth Coal Miner Wife Mary Weir age 35 Agnes 13 b Kyleshill, Charlotte 8, Eliz 4, Anna 1, Robert 10, John 6.”

Charlotte Frew or Welsh in Townhead St, a widow aged 24, has John 2 ½ and Agnes 4 months, daughter of Robert Frew labourer and Mary Weir. Her husband William Welsh a marine fireman aged 25 b Stevenston drowned at Genoa on 07/04/1896 from Poor relief records in Stevenston

This is the Charlotte Adams McIntyre who used Frew as middle names for her children and is in my family tree.

Does anybody know why Robert McIntyre used Frew when he was older? Was Frew his natural father's surname that did not marry his mother? Did his mother marry a Frew but it is not on SP or IGI etc?

Tom

[Penny Tray]

Tom,

This is an extract from http://www.lawpack.co.uk/Knowledge/Fami ... ngTogether" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:

"Until recently in Scotland, there was a form of common law marriage called 'marriage by cohabitation with habit and repute'. The theory behind this law was that if a man and woman cohabited as husband and wife in Scotland for sufficient time and were generally held and reputed to be husband and wife and were free to marry each other, they would be presumed to have consented to marry each other and if this presumption was not overturned, they would be considered to be legally married. This form of common law marriage has now been abolished by the Family Law (Scotland) Act 2006 which came into force on 4 May 2006."

Without going into any detail, please be assured that Common Law marriages, often with very good reason, were not, so to speak, uncommon in the Threetowns. This gives you the added possibility that Mrs. McIntyre may have enjoyed the benfits of a common law marriage with Mr, Frew, one of the consequences of which would be that the McIntyre weans would become Frew, retaining McIntyre perhaps as a middle name, alias, or not at all, and McIntyre and Frew weans would ostensibly become brothers and sisters. There would be no ceremony or paperwork. It just happened.

[tidybooks]

Hi Penny Tray,

Thanks for your reply, although it seems that Robert McIntyre changed his name to Frew, as his children were christened as McIntyre, married as McIntyre then died as Frew. I hope that some other person from the same family may have more answers for me.

I will keep this in mindthough, thanks again.

Tom

[sweet caroline]

1901 Census
Name: Agnes D F McIntyre
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Salcoats, Ayrsh
Registration Number: 657
Registration district: Symington
Civil parish: Symington
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Townfoot Farm
Occupation: Kitchenmaid (dom)
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 48
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1901_353
Appears to mix things up?

[sweet caroline]

1881 Census
Name: Robert Frew
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Stevenstone, Ayr
Registration Number: 576/1
Registration district: Old Ardrossan
Civil parish: Old Ardrossan
Town: Saltcoats
County: Ayrshire
Address: Windmill St
Occupation: Stone Labourer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 68
Line: 17
Roll: cssct1881_178
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Frew 44
Mary Frew 35
Agnes Frew 13
Robt Frew 10
Charlotte Frew 8
John Frew 6
Elizabeth Frew 3
Ann Frew

This is Robert Frew or McIntyre of the poor relief that you have

[sweet caroline]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CHARLOTTE ADAMS MCINTYRE Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 21 DEC 1872 Stevenston, Ayr, Scotland

Christening:
Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: ROBERT MCINTYRE Family
Mother: MARY WEIR

THIS IS CHARLOTTE FREW FROM THE 1881 CENSUS

[sweet caroline]

Whoever signed the Death Certificate did not know of a McIntyre connection for Agnes Divans McIntyre Frew .For anything legal he is Robert McIntyre ,for anything else he is Frew.Is that Your Agnes in the 1901 Census ? The Submitted records on "Familysearch is wrong as they have Charlottes mother as Mary McNair.Robert McIntyre must have known his father was a Frew.

[sweet caroline]

1871
Name: Robert Frew
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Stevenston, Ayrshire
Registration Number: 615
Registration district: Stevenston
Civil parish: Stevenston
County: Ayrshire
Address: Grange St
Occupation: Coalminer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 216
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1871_115
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Frew 30
Mary Frew 25
Agnes Frew 3
Robert Frew

Not finding him by either name in 1851/61 Census

[sweet caroline]

1841
Name: Robt McIntyre
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Stevenston
County: Ayrshire
Address: Town Head Street
Parish Number: 615
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John McIntyre 50 c1791 Ireland-Labourer
Jean McIntyre 40 c1801 Ireland
Margret McIntyre 20 c1821 -Muslim Flowerer
Charles McIntyre 17 c1824-Coal Miner
James McIntyre 15 c1826 -Coal Miner
Elisabeth McIntyre 12 c1829
Joseph McIntyre 9 c1832
David McIntyre 6 c1835
Uphemia McIntyre 4 c1837
Ann McIntyre 2 c1839
Robt McIntyre 1 c1840

[sweet caroline]

I have 2 illigit children from Stevenston on my tree ,who took there Father's Surname.

[tidybooks]

1901 Census
Name: Agnes D F McIntyre
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Household schedule number: 48
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1901_353
Appears to mix things up?

I think this is not my Agnes, my one was born 1868, married 1888 and had a son born 1890. By 1901 she would have used married name Paterson, maybe.

Tom

[tidybooks]

1881 Census
Name: Robert Frew
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Stevenstone, Ayr
Registration Number: 576/1
Registration district: Old Ardrossan
Civil parish: Old Ardrossan
Town: Saltcoats
County: Ayrshire
Address: Windmill St
Occupation: Stone Labourer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 68
Line: 17
Roll: cssct1881_178
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Frew 44
Mary Frew 35
Agnes Frew 13
Robt Frew 10
Charlotte Frew 8
John Frew 6
Elizabeth Frew 3
Ann Frew

This is Robert Frew or McIntyre of the poor relief that you have

This is the correct family, I have the birth certificate of Agnes Divens McIntyre (Agnes Frew above)born 8:00pm 11th February 1868 at Dickars Close, Kyleshill, Saltcoats to Parents Robert McIntyre and Mary Weir, who married 9th Sep 1864.