Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

For those researching family in the three towns area.


deans3
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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by deans3 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:43 am

Sweet Caroline.

I've often wondered the same thing. How did Hugh Lockart, the CC Poor House governor, know her parent's names, but not her husbands.
She had been a widow a long long time, I'm pretty sure he died in Stevenston in 1843, (though Scotland's people have it indexed as 1842).
I thought that perhaps she gave the information about her parents names, when she was admitted to the Poor House. I have been intouch at the Ayrshire library where the CC Poor House records are kept, and was told that there are no admissions records availabe, before about 1874.
I thought she should have been on the 1871 census, but found no trace. There is an Elizabeth Wyllie, about the right age, living in Irvine in 1871. I suppose it could be her, using her maiden name, but then why go into the CC Poor House under her married name.??
A conundrum indeed.
I'd love to tie this one down.

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sweet caroline
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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by sweet caroline » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:03 pm

Deans3 ,How can that be right,Where have i found Elizabeth Wyllie from Robertsland.I can asure you i had never heard of it before i found it for Elizabeth Wyllie.

sweet caroline
Edit-http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Cunninghame/
Edit-regarding use of maiden name ,usual starts after husbands death .1861 using married name and James is long gone.
Edit-Giving parents names when already an elderly widow is not the norm. for this area.Husbands would have been.
Last edited by sweet caroline on Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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sweet caroline
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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by sweet caroline » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:14 pm

Deans3,Well he wasn't a local
1881
Name: Hugh Lockhart
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elizabeth Lockhart
Gender: Male
Where born: Johnshaven, Kincardineshire
Registration number: 595
Registration district: Irvine
Civil parish: Irvine
County: Ayrshire
Occupation: Governor
ED: Cunningham Combination Poor House
Line: 1
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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sweet caroline
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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by sweet caroline » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:36 pm

This is the woman she was boarding with in 1861 Census,i think she would still have been there .Think she is already in Cunninghame House.
1871
Name: Jean Gardiner
Age: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1804
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Stevenston, Ayrshire
Registration number: 615
Registration district: Stevenston
Civil parish: Stevenston
County: Ayrshire
Address: Townhead St
Occupation: Muslen Sewer
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 57
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1871_115
Household Members: Name Age
Jean Gardiner 67

sweet caroline
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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by deans3 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:48 am

Sweet Caroline.

Yes, you are right, I have a scan of the 1861 census, for Elizabeth Dean, lodging with the Gardiner family.
Aged 69 born Ardrossan.
I also think you're right in saying that she was probably in the CC Poor House at the time of the 1871 census.
Were the people in the Poor House not counted during the census of 1871? Who would know about that?
I know there were in 1881, but that's too late for this Elizabeth Deans.

Going further back, (for what it's worth), I have a ascan of the 1851 census where she also appears, still in Kilbirnie, with 2 of her remaining children, Mary and Jean. Lodging with the John "something"-illegible. her age here is given as 63, born Ardrossan.
Strange thing is 10 years later the Elizabeth Deans lodging with Jean Gardner has an age of 69, born Stevenston.
Obviously doesn't tie up, but then it's all dependent on what they tell the census enumerator. I think possibly many people had many reasons for hiding their real ages, and birthplaces.
Or perhaps there were two "Elizabeth Deans's" of the same generation, living in Ayrshire.??
Not impossible, Dean and Deans seem to be quite common names in Ayrshire.......

Thanks for all your help and input Sweet Caroline.
If you turn anything else up, do let me know.

Kindest reagrds
Deans3
Last edited by deans3 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by sweet caroline » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:07 pm

Hi Andy ,Please delete your email address ,as it will go on the WWW .Yes we have 2 census 1841/61 b 1792 living in Stevenston,and 1 b1788 (Husbands birth) in 1851 Census in Kilbirnie.Did try years back to follow who she was lodging with in the 1851 census ,but got nowhere .

sweet caroline
Edit- Well,iv'e just been into the http://www.ayrshireroots.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; site using Google crome ,and it was not there that i found any Dean/s record ,about Elizabeth Wyllie.
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by deans3 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:26 am

Sweet Caroline.
I've removed my E mail address, though I'm not that worried about it being public.
It's one of the "disposable" ones, that I dump, if the spam gets to much.

Anyway, did you get my personal message about the apparent similarity between the nearly illegible name of the family that Elizabeth Deans was lodging with in 1851 (along with her two daughters), and the maiden surname of the mother, of the Elizabeth Deans (Wyllie), who died in the CC Poorhouse in 1873.?

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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by sweet caroline » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:27 am

Dean3,Yes got your Ms about names .As i said tried to follow it years ago ,but never got far .

sweet caroline

Edit- If you look on that site ,it has Poor Relief records before 1870
“He that has no fools, knaves, nor beggars in his family, was begot by a flash of lightning.” Thomas Fuller

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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by satellite » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:00 am

From my records Charles Banks was a son of John Banks, John's younger brother Charles Banks was my gggg grandfather.
Charles Banks married Marion Shaw, grandparents were John Banks and Janet Cumming, great grandparents were Charles Banks and Margaret Templeton.
Was interesting seeing the name Dean (s) come up, have been researching another Banks line from Irvine concerning Hugh Borland in his will in 1870 his sister was married to a Dean(s) from Irvine, names found in Banks line include Calderwood, Cousar, Sharp and Parker.
Three Banks lines came to Australia from the mid 1850ws and thers were found to go to America.

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Re: Charles Banks - 1817 Strikes

Post by stivis » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:43 pm

Slightly O/T but relative in part, the 1817 -19 were a prelude to the 1820 Strike ,
I think they had started circa 1813 and escalated , sometimes the strike was called the Radical Strike , or the general period "the rise of the Radicals"or "Radical Insurrection"

WiKi has a good background
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_War

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