George Floyd

[Meg]

This is what I was talking about - this is from Bannockburn. I didn’t see it myself, but my friend has just texted to say that council workers were cleaning graffiti off Burns’ statue in Burns Statue Square opposite the station.

[Meg]

From the outside of the Memorial at Bannockburn.

[meekan]

Meg in this day and age every thing is fair game for the vandals. If you leave them a open space they will find some way to destroy it. I’ve told the story many time about the new view finder on the Cannon Hill which had stood Safely for two weeks until the A & S Herald did an article on it, days later it was destroyed.
So leave the statues there, where they have been standing for many years with no one until now deciding that they are inappropriate. History has a way of creating scars and if these statues are considered to be scars so be it.We can’t erase history good or bad so why don’t we accept it and try to educate, difficult though it be in some cases, about the good and the bad that history is teaching us.
Most of these statues with their attention to detail are actually works of art and should be admired even though the person they portray should not.

[John Donnelly]

Got to have been done by an Englishman.
Well, I suppose, at the end of the day, Robert was indeed a racist. He was agin the English, so that falls within the definition of the word.
During the war, the population here in Holland, as was in Belgium, France, Denmark, Poland, etc., etc., were racists against the Germans.
We need to have a better, more specific definition for the word racist.
Mind you, having said that, such a definition would only be meaningful to the more intelligent among us. It would just be lost on the cretins who perpetrate racist activities.
A despairing but ever hopeful, JD.

[John Donnelly]

Hi Meekan, you got the nail on the head there. JD.

[Meg]

Got to have been done by an Englishman.
Well, I suppose, at the end of the day, Robert was indeed a racist. He was agin the English, so that falls within the definition of the word.
During the war, the population here in Holland, as was in Belgium, France, Denmark, Poland, etc., etc., were racists against the Germans.
We need to have a better, more specific definition for the word racist.
Mind you, having said that, such a definition would only be meaningful to the more intelligent among us. It would just be lost on the cretins who perpetrate racist activities.
A despairing but ever hopeful, JD.

Sorry John English isn’t a race. Need to go to a zoom meeting but will answer later.

[Meg]

Meg in this day and age every thing is fair game for the vandals. If you leave them a open space they will find some way to destroy it. I’ve told the story many time about the new view finder on the Cannon Hill which had stood Safely for two weeks until the A & S Herald did an article on it, days later it was destroyed.
So leave the statues there, where they have been standing for many years with no one until now deciding that they are inappropriate. History has a way of creating scars and if these statues are considered to be scars so be it.We can’t erase history good or bad so why don’t we accept it and try to educate, difficult though it be in some cases, about the good and the bad that history is teaching us.
Most of these statues with their attention to detail are actually works of art and should be admired even though the person they portray should not.

Meekan, I think you’ve missed my point altogether - we shouldn’t get rid of these statues, but, after consultation with the local community, elected members and appropriate groups, remove offending statues from their pedestals and put them somewhere, where the public can still see them, read what they did in the past and see how we have grown from then. We should never try and erase history, it’s the only way we can learn but - and it’s a big but - if we leave them where they are they will be pulled off their pedestals and thrown into the river. Not the best solution. This has to be seen to being dealt with. I don’t know what north Ayrshire are doing (are there any statues in the 3 towns - I can’t remember) but I would rather townspeople decided rather than rentamob.

[meekan]

Meg, it's an interesting argument, and I do see your point, it's just that I have trouble agreeing with it. I don't know who the statues you are referring to represent, for example those in Wellington Square, and I'm sure that very few people (even in Ayr) know anything about them. They are hidden in plain sight, but they are easily accessible to anybody walking in the gardens, who might decide to stop to admire the craftsmanship of the sculptor. In doing this they might even be interested in the history behind it.
Hidden away somewhere, which I'm sure they would be, I can't imagine that there would be any enthusiasm, or any great rush to visit such a site, so the memory jogger that their position in the Square allows has been lost. On second thoughts maybe the criminals who are intent on inflicting damage might just pay them a visit at their new home.
You and I may not agree with something that is happening in the world but we wouldn't think about going out and vandalising public property, because we were brought up to respect our surroundings. How to educate these criminals who cause destruction and looting under the guise of protesters is a whole different argument.

[Meg]

Watching them in London on the news today - I think re-educating might be a real problem. Interestingly enough, it is estimated the average reading age in England is 9 years old. Not seen figures for rUK.

[meekan]

Now that is interesting. To achieve an average of nine there must be a great number who are unable to read. I wonder how many of these are of ethnic origins? What is the source of this info?

[John Donnelly]

Meekan; I shall take you to task about criminals and vandals.
I have a notion that the people who pulled down the statue in Bristol were principled protesters who are scandalised, and have been for years, that such a personage should be put on a public pedestal, - bearing in mind the normal use of this phrase in normal daily usage.
On a slightly different note, when Sadam Hussein's statue was pulled down some years ago after the Iraq war, there was not the slightest murmur about lawlessness; - quite the opposite.
We seem to be sometimes a wee bit choosy about who and what we condemn.

JD.

[brian f]

Brian

When the words “black lives matter “ are used and I believe that is true, I wish instead they would use the words “all lives matter “ because there are many instances where lives are treated cheaply.

Correct Meekan. I saw the counter-protesters coming a mile off..